TAPE      #AF-1471

This presentation is dedicated to the men and women of the U.S. Air Force, U.S. Army and NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command).  The producers also thank them for their assistance in the making of this documentary.  And now, the Edwards Air Force Base Encounter.  The U.S. Air Force versus UFOs.  In several of his speeches President Ronald Reagan stated that the world could be united if we faced an alien threat from space.

Ronald Reagan:  I don't suppose we can wait for some alien race to come down and threaten us.  Perhaps we need some outside universal threat.  Our differences, worldwide, would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world.


Fact or speculation?  Reagan came back to that subject many times.  In California, Edwards Air Force Base is the home of the Air Force Flight Test Center, testing manned and unmanned aircraft weapon systems and spacecraft at the Associated Unit NASA Ames Dreyden Research Facility.  What started as Muroc Army Airfield in 1933 was renamed for Captain Glenn W. Edwards, who was killed there on June 5, 1948 in the crash of an experimental jet powered W-B 49 Flying Wing he was piloting.  For years Edwards has been the home of exotic test aircraft.  But unknowns have flown there too.  Edward J. Ruppelt, former chief of an Air Technical Intelligence Center, reported several incidents of unidentified aerial vehicles with advanced flight characteristics, seen over this secured test facility in the 1950s.  A similar event happened on the night of October 7, 1965.  And here is the voice of the man who first reported it.


Chuck Sorrels:  My name is Chuck Sorrels, a retired Air Force air traffic controller.  I'm recording this on May 16, 1995.  In 1965, 30 years ago, I was a tech sergeant in the U.S. Air Force, attached to the19 25th Communication Squadron at Edwards Air Force Base in California. I was the air traffic controller on duty in Edwards tower on the night of October 7, 1965.  I was working a midnight shift in the tower when at approximately 1:30 a.m., I spotted a group of luminous objects in the air above and around Edwards Air Force Base.  They had a flashing red light on the bottom, with a green, glowing light above the red.


They also sometimes flashed or glowed a white light above the green light.  The sightings lasted until about daylight, 5:30 or six a.m.  At first I sighted one object, which was larger and brighter than the rest.  At one point there were seven objects visible at the same time.

Canadian scientist, Wilbert B. Smith, who worked with the U.S. government on classified projects, stated that luminous objects like this were most likely extraterrestrial spacecraft.  The objects could become red or white hot from high voltages and cause a corona discharge through the surrounding air. The unusual light characteristics viewed at Edwards Air Force Base have been reported many times worldwide and have been seen in recently photographed footage of similar aerial objects.


Chuck Sorrels: The objects would be stationary for a period of time and then move very fast to another location and appeared to be able to climb straight up in short order.  Good eyesight and my experience as an air traffic controller made it plain to me that these luminous objects were not planes, helicopters, stars, satellites, weather balloons or any other known aerial object. Your job as an air traffic controller calls for you to be watchful.  Training told me these were not normal objects.  The objects weren't supposed to be there.  These were objects out of the normal, from their appearance and flight characteristics.  I reported these sightings to base operations and the Los Angeles Air Defense Sector.  The objects were also seen by at least five other people on Edwards Air Force Base.  They were also seen by George Air Force Base tower and were showing up on radar in at least four different radar sight locations.


The Los Angeles Air Defense Sector, or LAADS, plus NORAD and other parts of the air defense command, were very serious units, protecting the United States from air attack.  A search radar, height finder radar, and visual sightings convinced the LAADS people that this could be a serious situation and should be investigated.  LAADS decided to send up an interceptor to have a look. Many locations were reporting these objects and they didn't take it lightly.  When I lined the pilot of the interceptor up with the Edwards runway and gave him a heading toward the object, he reported contact, which means he had radar contact with something.  I got a lot of razzing from my buddies on the base for seeing these objects.  When I saw them a few times on other occasions, they weren't reported and no interceptors were sent up.  I am heard on the actual tapes you will hear from 30 years ago.  I am referred to as Edwards tower.


You are about to hear authentic, declassified Air Force audio recordings, edited into a chronological sequence from over six hours of original tapes made from phone patches, base to base communications and ground to air radio.  These recordings have been electronically enhanced for greater clarity and the conversations are those of actual military personnel.  Major Strubel, of a unit then known as LAADS, Los Angeles Air Defense Sector of ARADCOM (?), U.S. Army Air Defense Command, is heard authorizing the making of these tapes.



Yes, sir?  This is Major Strubel.  I'm on with you.


Uh, the, uh, man just went to get the tower boy there so he would have somebody to confirm his story.

Well, uh, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] record on---

They are.  They've got it.

Oh, you've got it?  Okay.

They're recording. [WORD?].

Recording from position [SOUNDS LIKE:  INV three five] on the incident.



[SOUNDS LIKE:  It's moved] to the north of us and  [OVERLAPPING]  [SOUNDS LIKE:  one's comin']  [UNINTELLIGIBLE] pretty fast.


[OVERLAPPING] And are he's comin' from north to south?

[OVERLAPPING] North to south?


North to south at this time from Edwards?


Right.  He's blinking red [OVERLAPPING] and [OVERLAPPING] which--

I have another red light and, uh, green light combination in sight moving very rapidly over the field at this time.  I--I'm gonna check on my RAPCON to see if they have any movement in that area.

[SOUNDS LIKE:    Okay.]

[TELEPHONE RINGING]    .              .

[SOUNDS LIKE:    VSS, uh.]

Yes.  Uh, LAADS, here.  Say, do you all have any, uh, reports of unknown...mmm...flying objects over there?  

No, we haven't.                                       .

Okay.  Was wonderin'.  We supposedly are having quite an invasion over here.  [LAUGHS]

[LAUGHS]  What area?  [SOUNDS LIKE:  In our] area?

Uh, no.  It's over around, uh, Victorville and Edwards. [SOUNDS LIKE:  Uh,] I was wondering if any of your, uh, sites or any of your bunches over there have called anything in.

No.  Uh uh.

Okay.  Fine.  Thank you much.




[SOUNDS LIKE:  Got four of 'em in that "V"?]

Yes, sir.

Uh, three on the bottom side and two others.

Yes, sir. Counting that, craft-- So there's four all together.


There's two in a line and there's three in a line.


The three in line, uh, would run westward.


And the other one would run up and parallel with the  bright one.

[OVERLAPPING]    [UNINTELLIGIBLE] Yeah.  Right.              ;

Is that what you're seeing?

[SOUNDS LIKE:    Yeah.  That's] the one I saw.


Would you do us a favor?

[OVERLAPPING]    We're looking for about seven UFOs.


[OVERLAPPING] Uh,  [UNINTELLIGIBLE] uh,  [SOUNDS LIKE:  from] Ontario International.

[SOUNDS LIKE:  Uh, would you--]  


[OVERLAPPING] [SOUNDS LIKE:  North] of Ontario [WORD?].

We're not positive.  Uh, this is coming from Edwards and George.


[SOUNDS LIKE:  Did he come from the northeast?]

 Yes.  No.  He came from the....  Yes.  Uh, northeast.




Or about seven of 'em.  [WORD?] we had white, green, flashing lights and we had them sighted visually.


And they're climbing now.  And, uh, we wondered [SOUNDS LIKE: if you're painting them--  We're trying to get a cross section here.

[UNINTELLIGIBLE].  Also the two towers, George tower.  Also, uh, uh, uh, Edwards tower.

Huh?    .

[SOUNDS LIKE:    Oh, uh, describe] it for me.


[B.G. VOICES]  [OVERLAPPING] [SOUNDS LIKE:  Okay, uh], as near as, uh--  I watched it through, looked at it through the glasses and it, at first appearance it just looked just like a star.


And then it started--  It was white, uh, white and green.  It keeps flashing white and green and on, uh--  It appears, what appears might be the bottom it, it--  At first appearance it, it looked just like a star.


I mean, they're not-- Uh, it's not intermittent flashing. It's, uh-- Appears to be [SOUNDS LIKE: slate.]

I see. In other words it, uh, like it fades in and out, huh? [OVERLAPPING] [SOUNDS LIKE: And in a different flash.]

[OVERLAPPING] Flashes red, yeah.

It's a definite flashing.

Uh, it's similar to what aircraft anti-collision lights would do.

[01:09:59:23]   .  .


[OVERLAPPING] It, uh, it definitely isn't moving [UNINTELLIGIBLE] or constant enough to be an aircraft.

Uh huh.


And [UNINTELLIGIBLE] around here [SOUNDS LIKE:  or else it] would dig up something.

And it, it, it's definitely, uh, changing in color from white to red or white to green and, uh, red.  Ee-- uh, the red flash is strong enough [OVERLAPPING] it would block out, uh, the rest of it for the naked eye,


So it appears to be white, from white green to red.

Can you hear any [UNINTELLIGIBLE] thing what it looks like?

I haven't checked it.  It's, it's, uh, appeared to move a lot closer to us.  I last checked it with the glasses, uh--

[SOUNDS LIKE:  Leaving], uh, over Edwards at, uh, eleven five, uh.  [B.G. VOICES]  Edwards is observing them from the ground.  Uh, two towers observing them and, uh, we're carrying them on height and radar.  Uh, oh--  They're flashing white, green and red.  And we have a track on them, kilo one five seven.  They're heading west, uh, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] at this time, uh, approximately, uh, 20 miles west of Edwards at 11 five.  There was a, uh--

Segment 1 as follows

We talked to Center.  They didn't have anything on it, but heading west, uh,]

[OVERLAPPING] Flew through the area,

[OVERLAPPING] at 14 grand. And he had no JOY on them, uh, Center, query the bird.  Uh, let's see.  I'm holding them now.  Uh, the bird that flew through the area is 50 miles west of Edwards.

[SOUNDS LIKE:  50 ???.]


Now, uh, talked to the sergeant, uh, the YOOFO people at Edwards, uh.  In the first place I should tell that, uh, Norton YOOFO referred us back to Edwards as being in their area.]  Uh, uh, there's a lieutenant........


uh, the YOOFO responsible officer in bed, 30 [OVERLAPPING] miles away.


[OVERLAPPING] [UNINTELLIGIBLE] [SOUNDS LIKE:  sergeant, uh,] doesn't, uh, have any authority except just to report to us.  They haven't, uh, requested a scramble or anything.  Uh, my question would be then do you, uh, want us to, uh, shake this lieutenant out of the pad and, uh, see if he wants to request, uh,.. Edwards said they had no capability, uh, base ops [WORD?] going up and looking.


SIGHTINGS/ SEGMENT AF-1471          8

[B.G. BUZZER]  Uh, now we're [SOUNDS LIKE:  paintin' them up there and everybody's seeing [SOUNDS LIKE:  it.]  So, uh, do you think we ought to shake this lieutenant out of pad and, uh, see if he wants to request, uh, we go up and take a look?

It might be well and--  They haven't raised him yet, huh? They haven't called him? 

Well, I told 'em to hold off until I talked to you.

[OVERLAPPING] Yeah.  Uh huh.  [SOUNDS LIKE:  He, uh--]

[OVERLAPPING] The sergeant's reluctant to call him until he feels like he, uh, needs to, 'cause it bein' three o'clock in the morning.  [LAUGHS]

Yeah.  Uh, [SOUNDS LIKE:  yeah, if you have such a good trace] and everything on them, uh, I think it'd be worthwhile if you give him a call.

Yeah.  That's my feeling too.


And then if he, uh--

[WORD?] in that area, you know.

If he should request a, uh, scramble, uh, we could prob'ly take one of the guard birds, uh, our deuces up, don't you think?

Yeah.  That could be okay.





Segment 2 as follows



Uh, all they give in here is, uh, special 13 for unsafe targets.]

Okay.  Let's, uh, put a special 13 around one five seven.

Oh.  One five seven.

Okay, sir?

Right.  Thank    you.

This is the SD.  We're making kilo one five seven a special 13, uh, which is the classification for unsafe targets.

Segment 3 as follows

This is the tower at Edwards.  We have an object now, over the field.

[B.G. VOICES]  He is right over the field?

Right over Edwards, moving southward fairly rapidly.  And this thing also has--  I can make out red and white flashing lights. And the captain at DET ONE has confirmed this.

[01:13 : 58:03]

He can also see this?

He can also see this.

In addition to Edwards, the following air force bases were involved with this event: March, George, Martin and Hamilton, where the 28th Air Division was located.  An element of the Air Defense Command, there Major Healey gave Major Strubel and LAADS orders.  Major Strubel was called SD, for Senior Director.  Also heard on the tapes will be the Weapons Director, Lieutenant Fisk, called WD or WD technician III, for team three.  Captain Balint, the YOOFO or UFO officer at Edwards had real authority and no planes could be sent up from Edwards or George for the planned mission without his approval.  Armed planes, Convair F-106 interceptors set for immediate takeoff were called alert birds. They may have carried nuclear weapons in the form of the AIR 2G-Genie unguided rocket, with a 1.5 kiloton nuclear warhead.  NORAD was informed of the situation and did not request they be further alerted unless things turned drastic.



Yeah.  This is, uh, [SOUNDS LIKE:  Edward SPK.]  On the three UFOs you got [SOUNDS LIKE:  you're readin'] there.



Uh,  [UNINTELLIGIBLE] to, uh, uh, you can call it [WORD?]. NORAD doesn't want 'em.  I wouldn't tell 'em [WORD?] unless something drastic happens.    :
Oh.  Okay.  You don't want us to tell 'em?

[SOUNDS LIKE:  Well, keep 'em] in the computer like you have now [OVERLAPPING]  [SOUNDS LIKE:  account flush]


And, uh, if anything, you know, anything, anything comes of this, then, uh, coordinate with us.    [SOUNDS LIKE:  I mean, I
don't know what else we can do.]

Yeah.  Well, uh, they are scrambling the YOOFO, uh, officer out of the pad    .

Uh huh.       .

And, uh, I talked to, uh--  I don't know who's makin' the decisions.  Uh, I talked to Major Healey, uh, over at Hamilton.


Yeah.      .    :.

And, uh, if they, uh, request a, uh, bird to go up and take a look, we were gonna, uh, send our, uh, Alpha Limas' up from Edwards.


Uh, but, uh, who's makin' the decision?  Major Healey or you people up there?

[UNINTELLIGIBLE] [SOUNDS LIKE:  listen to the--  decisions still come from 28th.]

Yeah.  Okay.  Well, uh, we'll, uh, we'll just continue with what we're doin' then.



Okay.  Real fine.

Right.  [SOUNDS LIKE:  Here and here.]



[SOUNDS LIKE:  You seeing a director between?]


Uh, this is Major Strubel.

This is Captain Balent at Edwards. 

Yeah.  Uh, you're YOOFO officer?

Yes, sir.    .

Okay.  I coordinated with my people, uh, at, uh, the, the next level and, uh, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] [SOUNDS LIKE:  always] let a bird go, uh, take a look.  And w-- we got the 106 available.



The directive I have says only, uh, that, uh, stick within the existing policies, go ahead and do it.  So, uh, it's, uh, it depends on your, your policy.  As far as I'm concerned it would be a good would be a good idea.

Well, actually, uh, the way I coordinated it with, uh, my people is we're standing by for your request.


So  you [UNINTELLIGIBLE] had a request.]

Okay.  Uh, let me get the spelling on your name for my log.

Captain what?
Balent, B A L


E N T.

Uh, okay.  And you're the YOOFO officer at Edwards?

Yes, sir.

Okay.  Uh, and, uh, I guess we n-- we--  Somebody has a number to reach you back?


Uh, I'll recoordinate this now, because it's been some time.


Uh, but we do have live data on 'em.


We should be able to pick 'em up all right.  So I'll, I'll get in touch.




I'll wait for your call.


Thank you.

Hello.  Uh, this is Captain Clark, Alpha Lima.

Okay.  Captain Clark, uh, Lieutenant Reed?


Uh, we have some confirmed reports of, uh, some unidentified flying objects your area. .


Approximately six or more, uh, from Edwards, uh, just south of Victorville, and we'd like to use--  We have information from 28th --- We also have some height-finder cuts from anywhere from 3,000 up to 13.  They're moving slowly.

Uh huh.

And they're climbing slowly.
I see.

They're red, white and green flashing lights.

Uh huh.

And, uh, they have been confirmed on radar.

I see.

Uh, we can't use any of the alert birds, but do you have another 106?

Well, that's all we have.

That's all you have?

That's all we have, (with) six on alert.

Okay.  Just a moment.  I'll let you speak to the Senior Director, and maybe I can go ahead and use one of your alert birds.  Uh, they can't establish what these things are.


Uh, [SOUNDS LIKE:  just a second.

Yes, uh,.

Okay, so they're still trying to decide here what to do.

You say you might have one?    .

Well,    uh, part of my [UNINTELLIGIBLE].  We had one on [WORD?]
one hour.  But I believe that's just because, uh, we don't have
that pilot here for it.

Oh, I see.

But I'm pretty sure they're all up and loaded.


He's, uh, checking that out, the, uh, ground crew now.


If he does-- If they do it downloaded, then we could pick one.

Uh huh.

If, uh, not then it, uh, we'd have to have authentication on the scramble with, uh, the weapon aboard.


Okay.  Uh, Major Strubel just wanted us to call you, the SD, here and, and, and let you know and I'll tell you I'll call you back in a minute or in a few minutes.


Uh, what c--  How can I reach you?

Uh, just, uh, call the, uh, hot room again.

Okay.  And [OVERLAPPING] then they'll


get me [B.C. BUZZING] back [SOUNDS LIKE:  in the] [WORD?].

Okay.  Thank you.  I have another call coming in now.






[SOUNDS LIKE:  28] [WORD?] [SOUNDS LIKE:  tower.]

Yeah.  Uh, Major Healey please.


Oh, yeah.  Major Strubel here at LADDS.

[SOUNDS LIKE:  Right.]  Okay.  They've finally


gotten Captain Balent, ah, the YOOFO officer at Edwards out of the pad and, uh, he said yes, he would, uh, like to have, uh, a look.  We're getting, uh, plenty of, uh, live, uh, data and the visuals on these things about 40 miles south of Edwards, several of them.  Uh,  uh, the altitude of the ones we're measuring, uh, from four-five to six-six, uh, thousand.

Four-five to six-six? 


Yeah.  Four and a half to six and a half grand.

Right.  Yeah.

Uh, and we have, uh, a, uh, non-loaded, uh, DET ONE --  I think it was--  Was it DET ONE or Alpha Lima that was, uh, available, Reed?  Lt. Reed? Was it DET ONE or Alpha Lima?  Uh, Alpha Lima at, uh, uh, a non-alert bird that they could, uh, get one of their pilots, uh, in about 15 minutes.  [OVERLAPPING] [UNINTELLIGIBLE]    .




So, uh, we'll go ahead and take a look then, right?

Yeah.  We--  Go ahead and use them and, uh, be and be careful with low


 altitudes and, uh, ground to hills and all that stuff, uh.

Yeah, right.

Okay.  We'll, uh, we'll take a look at these [OVERLAPPING] [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

[OVERLAPPING] You still--  How many you [SOUNDS LIKE:  are painting now ?]

Uh, they're varying reports come in.  We have a conference going, uh, with Edwards tower and, uh, uh, Pedro and, uh, Boron on our heighth (radar).  And, uh, it seems to be about three, and they're in the, uh, uh, azimuth's, uh, roughly from one five zero to one, uh, two zero and forty miles from Edwards.


I see.  Yeah.

Which, uh, puts 'em pretty close to us, but we've, we've had people up on the roof  looking, uh.  I think one of our people had some obs on them.  But there are a number of people, uh, have had visuals on 'em.

I see.

And, uh, say Edwards tower and many of the, uh, tower people picked 'em up, uh, visually, [OVERLAPPING] [SOUNDS LIKE:  yes?]

[OVERLAPPING] Yes.  They've been watching them for over an hour .

Yeah.  Okay.  I think it might be worth a try.

Okay. We'll, [OVERLAPPING] we'll, get this guy out of the pad and run him up.  It'll prob'ly be a half hour before he can get there.

Okay. Use caution.

Right.    Right.

Okay.    Right

Use caution. Proper military procedures were in place for a possible threatening situation. We will hear that the luminous objects were not weather balloons, and alert pilot, Captain Clark will indicate that the objects demonstrated peculiar behavior.  On the recordings the people at LAADS indicate that they had had previous experience with similar sightings when they state, "We process these every now and then."




All right [UNINTELLIGIBLE] [SOUNDS LIKE:  WD3] [UNINTELLIGIBLE] Uh, I'm getting some, uh, reports at Edwards tower, Victorville tower and, uh, several radar sights about UFOs. Are, uh, you launching any balloons out of, uh, Edwards?


Any balloons?


Not that I know of.

I see.  Well, do, uh, does Edwards have a [CLEARS THROAT]

Edwards don't, don't have a rawinsond [radar reflector balloon target] unit? [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

[SOUNDS LIKE:  to send up.]  So I doubt if they launched anything.  They wouldn't have no reason to.

They wouldn't have any reason to send [OVERLAPPING] balloons up ?

[OVERLAPPING] Not the weather section anyway.

Out of Edwards, huh?  


I see.

Unidentified flying saucers?


Go ahead.

No, uh, they got no reason to launch any weather balloons.



[UNINTELLIGIBLE] Edwards control tower again.  The UFOB officer at Edwards.  It has been, uh, confirmed that this [UNINTELLIGIBLE] over the field.  He had, he had seen this one. The captain at DET ONE has seen this one.  I have see it and, uh, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] the, uh, UFOB officer said it appears to be an aircraft to him.  It does not appear so to me.


It appears to be an aircraft?

He says it appears to be an aircraft.  [SOUNDS LIKE: Approach control has nothing on any aircraft.  It's moving too slow to be an aircraft at that altitude.

Uh, the captain at DET ONE, he doesn't seem to think it's an aircraft either, because the lights [UNINTELLIGIBLE] .

Yeah.  There's only two lights, a white and a red.   [SOUNDS LIKE:  I see no green from here.]

The, uh, YOOFOB officer saw this one.  He thinks it's an airplane.  I do not.

I don ' t either.

Captain Clark?


Uh, Lieutenant Fisk [SOUNDS LIKE: deputy] here. Yeah .

It's a, uh--  What do you think of it?  

Well, I'll tell you.  When I first saw the thing it was approaching the base from the north and it looked like a fairly, uh, low altitude, probably, uh, 10,000 feet and, uh, I got a good look at it with the binoculars.  It seemed to be pushing a little cloud in front of it and I thought, uh, well, at first, you know, looks like a rotating beacon hitting a cloud.



And, uh, but it just stays right with it.  And then it, uh, : turned, uh, a little bit, bit more westerly and gained a tremendous amount of altitude.




[SOUNDS LIKE:  This] [UNINTELLIGIBLE] control tower, tower observation on that last one.  It was reported all [SOUNDS LIKE: over] Edwards.


It is almost invisible now


with a naked eye.

You have any, uh, others visible around the area?

Yes, sir.  I, I still have the original one.  He has moved now to approximately one four five



I see.

And estimate at 40 miles and very, very high now.


Right. [SOUNDS LIKE: P X A S T.]


CLEARS THROAT] I understand you've got some UFOs.

Segment 4 as follows


Where, whereabouts are they?

Uh, Edwards and Victorville area.

Oh.  I see.  Well, I thought maybe they was over closer to us.
No.  ' Fraid not.


I got word you were [CLEARS THROAT] [SOUNDS LIKE:  usin' our] [UNINTELLIGIBLE] or something [OVERLAPPING] or other.

[OVERLAPPING] Roger.  We've got, .uh, Vegas on eliminate, eliminate here.

Uh huh.  Well, what information have you got on 'em?

Not very much, except they're flashing green, red and white.



Or green, red and blue or somethin'.

How many are there supposed to be?

I don't know what the latest count is.


[LAUGHS] And I--  It's gettin' pretty good.

Mmm.  'Course around Edwards you're liable to see most anything.



Yeah, I guess so.  [LAUGHS]  So anyway, we're about to scramble a bird off on 'em.  So if we could keep [SOUNDS LIKE: Vegas as dat], we would appreciate it much.





Segment 5 as follows

Oh.  Phoenix would like you to pass the tracks, uh, to them. Uh, all right.  I'd, uh--  Uh, you mean our zero vellocities,] all the ones we have recorded?

Yeah.  Just, uh, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] Phoenix.  [B.G. BUZZER] 'Cause if we should crump when they had to take the interceptor they'd, uh, have the tracks.

Okay, sir.  We'll, uh, we'll have them switched in.


[SOUNDS LIKE:  Right.]


[SOUNDS LIKE:  Release.]

[SOUNDS LIKE:  Release.]


It make any sense to you, what it could possibly be?

SIGHTINGS/ SEGMENT AF-1471     20    .

No.  We're in as much of the dark as you are.

We process [WORD?] [SOUNDS LIKE:  now and then.] 

Yeah.  Okay.  I'll, uh, get the thing goin' anyway [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

Okay.  [UNINTELLIGIBLE] here now.  Thanks a lot.          J


Uh, San Pedro is painting them, uh, three targets, and they're all three around 9,000 feet.

San Pedro's pickin'   'em up at 9,000,    huh?


What about Boron? 

Boron? We're, uh, working with them to see if we can get 'em on 'em now. That's those three little dots out there   [OVERLAPPING] and


I'd say that, uh, there are three definite objects.  It's not weather.  It's not clutter.  

Uh, they, they can see the objects, but they don't see, uh, [SOUNDS LIKE:  it's not an aircraft?]  

No.  They can't tell what they are.


Uh.  Oh.  Scramble 'em.

[SOUNDS LIKE:  You are scramblin' 'em] [UNINTELLIGIBLE]? [LAUGHS] [SOUNDS LIKE:  I'm curious to] find out what the hell they are.

I am too.

And you'd be within your right to scramble 'em, wouldn't you?

I don't know.  [SOUNDS LIKE:  Be up to me just] [WORD?] I guess.


They're not moving [SOUNDS LIKE:  hard] at all.  [SOUNDS LIKE:  They did?]

They watched 'em for 30 minutes and they didn't move at all and then all of a sudden, boom.

Oh yeah?  Hmm.  [SOUNDS LIKE:  What are they?]

[LAUGHS] Don't know.

Little green men?

Nobody [SOUNDS LIKE:  has ever accepted these things yet?.]


[SOUNDS LIKE:  Let's] [WORD?] a pilot in from [SOUNDS LIKE: home.]


[STAMMERS] He--  They needed special pilots [SOUNDS LIKE: for these?] 

Well, [SOUNDS LIKE:  they're still thinking that] these are [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

Yeah.  I guess those things aren't hostile, because they haven't done anything yet.    .

Yeah.  Well--   

It's interesting to see what's gonna happen when he goes up,


takes a look at them.  [SOUNDS LIKE:  There's nine of 'em now?] 





 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] multiplied.


[SOUNDS LIKE:  Al Planer].

Segment 6 as follows

Alpha Lima?

Roger.  Alpha Lima Tech 3.  Alpha Lima One getting close? (to scramble)

He's cranked up but I think we hit a snag here. Uh--

Oh, goodness.

We're checking on it right now.  We'll let you know.

Okay.  Right.



[SOUNDS LIKE:  Uh, stand by.]   


[B.G. VOICES]  All, all of 'em [SOUNDS LIKE:  clear now] that the red light has stopped and they all appear to be gaining up--uh, altitude rapidly.

Is that right?

Yes, sir.

I'll go out and watch that bright one again.

Okay, sir.  Uh, [SOUNDS LIKE:  uh, there's], uh, three more of 'em well south and dim.] 


[OVERLAPPING] But I still see a red light occasionally on one of them.

Where are they from that big bright one?

Beneath him and just a little bit south and there's three of 'em almost in a straight line.

Uh huh.

Almost horizontal.                           :

I see.  

And I still see a red light occasionally from those, but not from the big one.




[SOUNDS LIKE:  It's very possible we've been] observing this [SOUNDS LIKE:  moving] all night here.  Let me, uh, let me [SOUNDS LIKE:  get him back on], see if he'd, uh, if he's gettin' the same impression from it I'm getting.


I don't like to be the only one seeing these type things.




This is Sgt. Sorrels again. Base Ops confirms my, uh, what I'm seeing.  They are all rising and they, there's a weather man in base ops that's been observing these things all night


[SOUNDS LIKE:  with the, uh], uh--  He's been using reference points to, uh, try to judge --if they were moving


And, uh, he confirmed that they are very much higher now than they were.  They are, they are definitely going up.

Any estimate on the altitude now?

Uh, with--  I'd hate to venture a guess.  Uh, I--  I would say something like, uh, maybe at 30, 40,000.  But now this is strictly way out [SOUNDS LIKE:  there in] [WORD?] off the eyeball guess.

And none of 'em are at low altitude any more then?

[01:32 :08:24]

No, sir.  I wouldn't say.  No, uh, not nearly what they were. At, at first sighting on that one I would, I would have guessed his altitude to be no more than, at the most, 5,000 feet.

These division reports have had them anywhere from all the way from 30 or 40 grand.

Well, uh, they were very accurate.  We got--  We'd get height on the same track at, uh, 6,000. 


These are tower guys. [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

Oh yeah.  They, they admit it.  [LAUGHS]  In fact one guy says, "I don't like to be the only guy that sees this stuff."

[UNINTELLIGIBLE] So he went to get somebody else.  Now they've got a weather man out there lookin' at 'em and they've got, uh, the , tower people lookin' at 'em and, uh, March approach has 'em on radar and Pedro, and, uh, Boron--


We just heard Sergeant Chuck Sorrels say, "I don't like to be the only one seeing these type things."  But he kept observing them.  And we will hear him help vector the F-106 interceptor called Alpha Lima towards the luminous objects above the Edwards runway.  The F-106 was equipped with the MA-1 fire control system and SAGE computer direction center, connected to the air defense network.  This achieved automatic target lock on.  But the pilot could still manually fire his weapons.  Listen carefully to the voice of the interceptor pilot pursuing the object and stating, "Contact, " indicating that he had actual radar contact with something solid.

Segment 7 as follows

Alpha Lima.
Uh, roger.  This the [McLean???] again the WD from Tech 3. Listen, on this bird that has just  taken off.  It's--  It's not a hot bird, huh?]

No.  No.  He's, he's cold.

Yeah.  He's cold and he's,    uh, he's not loaded, right?       .

No.  He's not loaded. 


Okay.  Is he aware of, now, of what he's gonna be doing and everything?  How pleased is he?

Oh, uh, he didn't say too much.


Okay.  Edwards tower?

Yes sir.

WD.  Okay.  Alpha Lima Zero One is now bearing about, uh, one nine five for 15. [OVERLAPPING] [SOUNDS LIKE:  If--]

[OVERLAPPING] You have him in sight.

You him in sight?     


Uh, Edwards, do you still have any of these, uh, UFOBs in sight?


Segment 8 as follows

Okay, tower, pick out one you want us to intercept and we'll take ah Zero One in on him.

That's--  Have him, have him, uh, proceed, uh.


He appears] to be goin' on [SOUNDS LIKE: north, north now.]  Uh, have him come, uh, right down the runway, uh, zero four.

Alpha Lima Zero One.  Uh, would you, uh, turn your running lights on?

Yeah.  Roger, Zero One.  Uh, turn your, uh, lights on.

 [SOUNDS LIKE:  Lights are on.]


Right.  Alpha Lima Zero One, starboard three six zero.



[SOUNDS LIKE:  Roger, three six oh.]



Roger.  Alpha Lima Zero One, uh, starboard zero four zero.

Okay.  Zero One's coming down to zero four zero runway.


Let him go right over our rocket site.  Start a slow right turn right over the rocket sight.

Okay.  He's turning now. 

Hold that.

Okay.  How's he looking now?  I got him starboard to one two?    .

Uh, hold that.

Hold that, huh?

Yeah.  That's pretty good.

Okay.  Could you--  What, uh?  What's the blip in relation to him,   12 o'clock?

[OVERLAPPING] Uh, about--  Have him more right.    Uh, if you have him--  Uh, the best reference I'm gonna be able to get is have him come back over Edwards and line up with the runway again.

Ground observer requests you fly down the zero four zero runway.

[UNINTELLIGIBLE] the runway. Roger.

Alpha Lima Zero One, when you reach the end of the runway, starboard zero nine zero at the end of the runway.


[UNINTELLIGIBLE] or [SOUNDS LIKE:  departure lane?]

Zero One,  you should hold a one blip now, target on your right.  One on your left.  Stand by for range. XXXXX  negative ? reads from targets.

One on the right and one on the left.

Contact, uh, standby one, I have possible contact at, uh, rise about, possible contact rise on about ten nine 20.

Roger.  A pursuit [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

[SOUNDS LIKE:  Zero five zero.]

[UNINTELLIGIBLE] Can you hold that target, uh, approximately, uh, five left at 17

edwards_part7.mp3 is also Segment 7

three zero 15?

[WORD?]  [SOUNDS LIKE:  The description of this object?  I'd like to try and get it eyeballed if it's out here.

Roger, uh, should be approximately, or was approximately five to seven objects, uh, green, red and white flashing lights. Uh, they were swiftly moving and seemed to be in the area for some time and then just quickly moved straight up.

[UNINTELLIGIBLE] on my target.



Roger, uh, we had a possible radar contact now a range of three miles.  We're losing contact with that object now.

[SOUNDS LIKE:  Starboard.]  Zero five zero.

Zero five zero.

Zero One's heading should pass over Edwards tower.


--zero nine.

I see Edwards, uh, from here.

[SOUNDS LIKE:  Target area, uh,] two miles.

[UNINTELLIGIBLE] I have [WORD?] another one, a flashing target about, uh,  [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

Roger, uh, could you, uh, check this target out?


[UNINTELLIGIBLE] he's flying low out there.

Roger.  Uh, Zero One, begin descent to intercept this target.

Uh, Zero One, Edwards tower.  He reports you, uh, are in the vicinity of his target now.

What did he find out there to the west?

He lost his contact..

Uh, I still have a contact out there.


Oh, you do?  A visual?


Is it one of these objects?  Look the same as the rest of 'em?

No.  This one, uh, just appears to be, uh, flashing, not, uh, nothing red or green involved.

Oh, I see.  Could be something else.

All right.  I have Alpha Lima in sight now.

Yeah.  He says he's got a contact 12 o'clock 16.

That's it.

Okay.  Pedro.


Turn your heighth finder uh, seven degrees ahead of him.

Hey, tower?

Yeah.    .

How's he lookin' now?  Is he headin' for anything?

Pretty good.

He looks good.

Yeah.  Are the blimps merging?  I mean, uh--

Yes.  [SOUNDS LIKE:  He's converging on 'em.]  Uh, they are converging.  He sees to be maybe just a  little bit south of it.  A left turn, left turn.  Low left turn.  He's low and left.  That thing is rising.


Uh, tower, how's things look now?

Uh, he's low.  Look--  Search high.  Search high. Search high.

[B.C. BUZZER]  Search very high.  That thing is rising.

It's rising rapidly.

It looks like it's right above him from the tower now.

It, it looks almost directly above him and rising.


Okay.  Pedro, come back to [OVERLAPPING] the target.


Back [SOUNDS LIKE:  to the scepter.]

You're in the general vicinity now.  [OVERLAPPING] It looks much higher.  Much higher.

[OVERLAPPING] It's directly overhead.

Okay.  Alpha Lima's gonna climb to 40,000.

[SOUNDS LIKE:  Low contact at zero three zero.]

I'll hold zero three zer--  Search, uh, 15 degrees either side, zero three zero.


Okay, tower, turning Alpha Lima Zero One towards at two five zero, should, uh, bring him straight in over the top of you.

[SOUNDS LIKE:  Over the top of us again?]


[SOUNDS LIKE:  He looks like he's still holding] two-five thousand.

Right.  And, uh--

Zero thousand now.

[SOUNDS LIKE:  Say again?]

He's climbing.



He's climbing to 40,000.

Uh, one of the objects is to his right, low.

To his right and low.    .


[SOUNDS LIKE:  Search visually right and low.

Uh, [CLEARS THROAT] Pedro search, mark that spot.  Check, uh--

SIGHTINGS/ SEGMENT AF-1471     30   

[SOUNDS LIKE:  five degrees, either side of that height finder and, uh, look high and low.

Okay.  Have him come right, uh--  Have him line up with my runway zero four.  Have him go on a right turn and, uh, roll out zero four zero and bring him right down my runway.

You're gonna do what now?

Right turn.  And roll out zero four zero.  Come right down my runway.  

Okay.  Realize his turn radius up there's about, uh, 20 miles.

Uh, that'll put him to the north of it when he comes around.


Rog, okay.

Okay.  Uh, put him, uh, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] starboard at starboard turn zero four zero.

Zero one turning starboard zero four zero. 


Make sure bring him in, uh, quite a ways north of ya.

Yes.  He will.  We'll prob'ly lose him when he goes over the tower and have to catch him on, uh--]

I've got a possible contact on search radar, bearing this near station zero seven five to ten.

[OVERLAPPING] [SOUNDS LIKE:  Hey, gentlemen--]

[OVERLAPPING] [SOUNDS LIKE:  Zero seven] five ten.

Uh, is there anything else there?

I have one at zero seven five.  Uh, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] the distance.



It's high.  [UNINTELLIGIBLE] what heading's the interceptor on now?

He's at zero eight zero heading.

Okay.  Hold that.

Uh, [WORD?] how's he lining up?


Looks pretty good.

Luminous object 12 o'clock.

Should be 12 o'clock. 20 degrees [SOUNDS LIKE:  fourth] and high, [OVERLAPPING] high.

[OVERLAPPING] At zero five zero.

He appears [B.G. BUZZER] he's way low.


Way low?


We're at 40,000 feet.

He 's still low.

Search high.

I would say he was about under it,     now.


Uh, he should be under it now.

[OVERLAPPING] [SOUNDS LIKE:  Or he should be--]

[OVERLAPPING] Did he pass under a target at this' time?

Yes.  He's--  About the time I said mark, uh, he appeared that he was almost under it.

Okay.  Mark that spot there, Pedro.


Okay.  Search,    uh, ten degrees either side.

Mmm.  All Zero One reports is one great big bright, shiny star.


That's what it appears like from the tower now. Uh, it has that appearance here now. It is much, much higher than when we first, uh, first observed it.

If it's that much higher we're not gonna see it on the search radar.

I suspect it's over your radar now.



Was that--  Is that in the area of this this target you're searching?

Right.  [SOUNDS LIKE:  This is the search.  PPI.

That is the three PPI search area?

[OVERLAPPING] [SOUNDS LIKE:  Yeah.  We have the interceptor at another base now.  We're gonna have it on another target] [UNINTELLIGIBLE].  Zero One zero zero.

[B.G. LAUGHTER]  . Hey, tower?

Yes, sir.

Have you got anything else in sight?

No, sir.  Just those two that we tried on there.  Uh, and he appears from the tower to pass way beneath it.


Uh, Edwards? Yes, sir.

Is there one about, uh, southeast of you, about, uh, three miles at this time?

Southeast at three?


Yes.  Southeast, much closer.  We've got a possible contact there on something.

Just a moment.  I see something.  Let me throw my glasses on.

SIGHTINGS/ SEGMENT AF-1471     33    .

Three one two zero.       

Huh.  [SOUNDS LIKE:  Sir, I] hate to be an optimist, but that fighter looks like he's goin' someplace.

Uh, Pedro?


Right.  Did you find anything back in that search area I gave you?




I don't have any contact [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

Okay.  You lost all your other visual contacts on these things?


Okay.  We'll call Alpha Lima Zero One then.



Yes, uh.  I don't have another one in sight.  Uh, [SOUNDS LIKE:  anyplace.]  

You've lost 'em all, huh?

Sir, I don't have [UNINTELLIGIBLE].  

Zero One said he saw some reflections off the ground that appear to be flashing.

Reflections off the ground that appear to be flashing?

Right, uh, off a lake bed.

Huh.  Well, I don't know what [SOUNDS LIKE:  that'd be.  A beacon.]

No.  He knows the beacons.  Okay, fine.  I might as well key off and break this line down then.


We'll see you tomorrow night.


[SOUNDS LIKE:  Off surveillance here.]


Are you gonna debrief, uh, Alpha Lima?

Yeah.  I've been listening in on the air here on my, uh, [SOUNDS LIKE:  little IND monitor.]




You gonna debrief him when he lands?

Prob'ly will.


Flight supervisor. 

3 WD3. You wanted to know our results of Alpha Lima Zero One?

Yeah. Negative.

[SOUNDS LIKE:  Didn't get] results, huh? 

No.  We picked up a low flying aircraft, a few ground targets and things like that. 

I'll be doggone.

[SOUNDS LIKE:  When he went through at 15, 25 and 40 thousand feet on these visual objects and, uh, [SOUNDS LIKE:  supposedly he got] under it, according ....


to, uh, ground observations,


[OVERLAPPING] visual observations.  And, uh, pilot reported nothing flying underneath it.

Uh huh.  Okay.  Well, thanks very much.  It was kind'a interesting anyway.

Yeah, it is.  We're as curious as you are.


Guess we'll never know.  [LAUGHS]

Yeah, [LAUGHS] I guess not.


Okay.  Well, thanks for calling.






Uh, one of the telephone people that work here knew about this deal last night.  He was reacting to this UFO report. And he was


Well, this fella went into a restaurant in Lancaster this morning and apparently he knew a waitress in there and he [SOUNDS LIKE:  hadn't ment-- mentioned anything at all] about this UFO thing and she was tellin' him about a guy that came in there last night all shook up.  Said he was on the highway between Victorville and, uh, uh, Lancaster.  [B.G. BUZZER]  It's, oh, roughly about 20 miles, uh,


East of, uh, Palmdale here on [SOUNDS LIKE:  130 E].



And he said this [STAMMERS] bright red object, uh, he saw it kind'a hoverin', all of a sudden it made a pass right down over his car and right across the highway and said it's parallel to the


highway for quite a while and then just took off and it like scared him bad.  He thought it was gonna hit the car.

Holy mackerel.  [LAUGHS]  Uh--

[LAUGHS] [SOUNDS LIKE:  Yeah, and now--]

Well, he was the telephone man you say?

No.  It--  [OVERLAPPING] This telephone--

[OVERLAPPING] Oh, one of the telephone men overheard him?

No.  The telephone man, uh, was talkin' to this


waitress in the w-- restaurant this [OVERLAPPING] morning,


About six o'clock over in Lancaster.


And [SOUNDS LIKE:  I've got] the telephone man's name here.

Uh, Watch Supervisor and XXXX director?  Uh,-we have the UFO information dispatcher at base operations Norton on also.  He's listening in now.


Oh.  Oh.  Goo-- Good.  Good.  [OVERLAPPING] Uh, then he needs this more than I do.  Uh,

Is this the, uh, Watch Supervisor?

Yes.  This is the Watch Supervisor at Los Angeles Center.

[OVERLAPPING] Lancaster--  Hello? 


If this is the Lancaster area, uh, we're supposed to refer you to the nearest base where this, uh, sighting occurred, which would be Edwards or George.

Okay..  Well, you won't need this report then?

Well, uh, that's, uh, the way we have it written up here is an SOP, uh.  Supposed to determine the location where the sighting took place

[OVERLAPPING] Sure.    .


[OVERLAPPING] and, uh, refer you, rather, refer the party to report that to the nearest base [OVERLAPPING] where


the sighting occurred, which would be Edwards or, uh, George,

Yeah.  Okay.    .  .   .

Uh, now this is [SOUNDS LIKE: a deputy in between] again. Uh, did this occur though, close to [SOUNDS LIKE: Cajon] Pass, where he saw this?

Yes.  Uh huh.

The actual sighting occurred at the Cajon Pass?

[01:49:58:12]    .

It was right down below Cajon Pass.

You mean on the, uh, on the, uh, north side of the mountain?

Yes.  This is on the north side of the mountain.  I'll, I'll be glad to pass it up to Edwards.  I, I was just [OVERLAPPING] kind of [WORD?]--

[OVERLAPPING] I, I could give you the name of the, uh, YOOFO officer at Edwards.  I have it on my report here.  Let's see, uh, it's Captain, uh--  Wait'll I find the damn thing.  Uh, what's that, uh, captain's name at Edwards? 

Now, that's okay.  Uh, uh, uh--


[OVERLAPPING] He, he'd want it there a--at, uh, the [SOUNDS LIKE:  WD or SD] position for your report or not? 



[OVERLAPPING] Uh, no. I won't need it here. Uh, but, uh, Captain Bilent at Edwards, uh, Base Ops.

Uh huh.  Yeah.  Okay.  [SOUNDS LIKE:  Well, I'll give it to him. ]

[OVERLAPPING] He'd, he'd be, uh, collecting all of this data.

[OVERLAPPING] Yeah.  Okay.  [WORD?]--

[OVERLAPPING] And I think [SOUNDS LIKE:  it's a real] interesting thing.  I think he prob'ly would want to have it.


Y-- Yeah.  I'll pass it on to him.
All right.  Fine.  Thank you.

You bet.  [UNINTELLIGIBLE].    ...


Okay, uh, [SOUNDS LIKE:  watch supervisor]?


Okay.  Thank you very--

At, uh, Edwards.