TRANSCRIPT OF
BERGSTROM AFB INTERVIEW OF
BETTY CASH, VICKIE & COLBY LANDRUM
August 1981
Part 2 of 2
| VL: |
No, I wasn't looking for
it. I was too scared... put it that
way, cause I ain't going to say I
wasn't scared, cause (chuckles) I
was scared, I guess I'm a coward,
but I was scared.
|
| CJC:
BC:
|
(to Betty Cash) OK, can
you recall if you saw more than one
flame at a time?
I wasn't looking at the flames, I
was looking for a way out.
|
| CJC: |
I understand. Ah... the
reason I'm asking... did it have one
engine or several engines or... from
what you could tell?
|
| BC: |
I wish they would have
asked me that when I was under
hypnotism.
(pause)
|
| CJC: |
OK. Prior to this
incident, Ms. Landrum, have you been
treated for any illness or
problems?
|
| VL:
CJC:
|
No sir.
Have you been in the operation...
ah, in the hospital for a
operation?
|
| VL: |
Well ah, about twenty...
three years, 22 years ago, I had
hysterectomy. Other than that,
I have never had nothing really
wrong with me till this.
|
| CJC: |
Now would you please
give us your address and your age?,
your current address.
|
| VL: |
My current address is
506 West Clayton, Dayton Texas. The
ZIP code is 77535, and I'm 57 years
old.
|
| CJC: |
OK. Um... Terry, do you
have any questions?... Oh, one other
question: who is the doctor
that's been treating you?
|
| VL:
CJC:
|
Ah... Dr. Chandler in
Liberty.
Liberty Texas?
|
| VL: |
Um humm... and he's only
an eye doctor, but he... I got all
faith in him because he has a doctor
that work with him that is uh.. is
one (unintelligible) one of the best
I think, that uh... and he told me
that when he couldn't do for my eyes
anymore that when he felt he wasn't
capable of giving me what I needed
that he would turn me over to this
doctor and uh... you can't ask for
nothing better than that.
|
| CJC: |
Let me ask you regarding
the skin problems, and your hair
loss, have you talked to any other
physician about that?
|
| VL:
BC:
VL:
CJC:
|
No, nothing but Uh
Doctor.... (to Betty Cash)
what's his name?
Shoney.
Dr. Shoney... yeah I talked to
Dr. Shoney.
Is this the same doctor that Ms.
Cash had been seeing?
|
| VL: |
Yes, but I never did see
him as a patient, I was there now
with Betty so much and talked to
him, but ah, this doctor that saw me
was... (to Betty) what was his
name?
|
| CL:
VL:
BC:
VL:
CJC:
VL:
CJC:
|
Easley.
... that said that about the...
Oh, uh... Easley, Dr. Easley
radiologist at the Medical Center
in Houston.
... at the Medical
Center.
Where? ... in Houston?
Uh huh.
Did he tell you anything?
|
| VL: |
No sir, nobody's never
told me nothing. Except my
family doctor told me that he
couldn't doctor me because he didn't
know nothing about it and he
didn't... that he would do me more
harm than good and he wasn't about
to.
|
| CJC:
VL:
|
OK, now have you had to
pay any doctor bills as a result of
this.
Yes sir!
|
| CJC: |
Can you give us some
idea of how much you've had in the
way of doctor bills... Ms.
Landrum?
|
| VL: |
Let's see...(pause) I'd
say approximately about six or seven
hundred dollars on my eyes and
Colby's eyes.
|
| CJC:
BC:
CJC:
CJC
BC:
|
OK, alright... and how
about you Ms. Cash? Can you
give us any... ?
I would imagine that mine has
been around ten thousand dollars,
or better.
OK...
(End of cassette side "A")
... seven hundred dollars
on my eyes and Colby's eyes.
OK, alright... and how about you
Ms. Cash? Can you give us
any... ?
I would imagine that mine has
been around ten thousand dollars,
or better.
|
| CJC: |
OK... alright now let me
ask you ah... and again would you
give me just a basic physical
description of yourself, height and
weight-wise, would you mind doing
that for me Ms. Cash?, just
for the record.
|
| BC: |
Well I'm supposed to be
five-five and a half, but I think I
shrink with age (laughs)... and I
weigh 112 pounds... now, because I
have lost some weight.
|
| CJC:
BC:
CJC:
VL:
CJC
|
What was your weight at
the time of the incident?
118.
OK, and you Ms. Landrum, would
you describe yourself?
Well, I'm five feet exactly and I
weigh uh... well I weigh about 138
pounds.
OK, and how much... have you
suffered any weight loss?
|
| VL: |
Um... well, yes sir,
cause I weighed a hundred... about
162 pounds, I was too heavy, so
its... I guess my weight loss has
done me a little good. (chuckles)
(unintelligible)-wise.
|
| CJC:
CL:
CJC:
|
OK.
Where's the bathroom at?
... the bathroom
at?... um... will you take
him...
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) but now
the little boy, now he went from a
size... I mean... he uh... he was in
a 6 slim blue jean and they fit him
perfect, and when I went to buy him
some clothes the other day, and I
got them on him, and I had to go
back to a 5 slim blue jean...
|
| CJC: |
OK...
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) ... But
what's so terrible about it, now
this is what the doctor in Houston
told me and another... um... even
that Dr. Rank from Wisconsin... he
told me the same thing, that there's
a possibility within the next, he'd
be safe to say within the next eight
to twelve years that Colby would
come down with a form of leukemia,
which wouldn't be leukemia, but...
and if he was treated for leukemia
it could kill him.
|
| CJC: |
Who was the doctor that
was telling you this?
|
| VL&BC: |
Oh... ah... wasn't
it Dr. Shoney and a Dr. Peter Rank
said there's a possibility because
they don... I mean, nobody knows how
much radiation he might have
consumed, or what kind it might
could been, but it had to be
radiation to have burned us like we
were burned.
|
| CJC:
VL:
CJC:
VL:
CJC:
BC:
CJC:
|
Let me ask you Ms.
Landrum, is there any history of
ah... cancer in your family?
No.
OK, have you ever had a relative
or blood relative that had had
cancer?
No.... no.
OK, ... Ms. Cash... ?
No.
Alright now...
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) I had a
son that was a diabetic, my mother
was a diabetic, but there's never
been a cancer.
|
| CJC:
VL:
CJC:
VL:
CJC:
VL
CJC
|
Now help me with... is
it Coby?
Uh huh.
How do you spell...
C-O-L-B-Y.
Colby, C-O-L-B-Y.
Right.
Now is... whose son is he?
|
| VL: |
He's my... um... His
father's name is Paul Landrum he's
my son, he's my middle son and him
and his wife divorced when Colby was
seven months old and he couldn't
take care of him, and uh... his
mother didn't want him...
so...
|
| CJC:
VL:
CJC:
VL:
CJC:
VL:
|
(breaking in) OK, so
Colby's your grandson living with
you.
Right, I've got custody of him,
he's my responsibility; he's
mine... you know?
OK, do you live with anybody
else?
My husband.
OK, and what's his name?
His name's Art (unintelligible)
Wilson Landrum... Senior.
|
| CJC: |
Alright. is there
anything else that y'all can... tell
us that would... about the
incident as far as... has anybody
else within the Air Force or within
the government contacted you...
about this incident?
|
| VL: |
No. And I wrote Charles
Wilson, he wrote me back a write-off
letter and I turned it over and
wrote him a letter back.
|
| CJC: |
You say a write-off
letter...?
|
| VL: |
Huh!... Well it was a
thing where UFOs had been
discontinued since nineteen and
seventy three I believe it said, and
he gave me a whole list of who I
MIGHT be able to contact.... and I
turned it back over and I told him
exactly how I felt and I...
|
| BC: |
Well, I said one
thing... I laid in that hospital and
suffered that thirteen days before I
would even level with my
doctor.
|
| VL: |
I told Colby not to tell
nobody...
|
| BC: |
... 'cause I didn't want
anybody to think I was crazy 'cause
I had never believed in things like
this. But it definitely didn't have
little green men with pointed
ears.
|
| CJC:
VL&BC:
CJC:
CL:
|
Did you see anybody?
No we didn't see nobody...
no.
Let me talk to Colby a minute.
Colby, how old are you?
Seven.
|
| CJC: |
'Kay... let's get a
little bit closer here so we make
sure we get down everything you're
saying on this tape, OK?
|
| CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
|
OK.
Now, why don't you tell me what
you saw... that night.
I don't know what it was, but all
I know is it was some kind of
object.
What color was it?
Kinda yellowish-red.
Yellowish-red?... and uh... how
long did you see it?
Uh... for about... stayed there
for about... 15 to 20
minutes.
OK, now what happened whenever
you saw it?... what did you feel
like?
(pause)... I just... wondered
what it was... sitting there
wondering what it was.
What happened to your body when
you looked at it?
I didn't feel nothing until I got
up the next morning.
What happened the next morning?
I just had... bad virus.
|
| CJC: |
Bad virus? Why don't you
tell me what happened.... did you go
to the bathroom... what happened
when you went to the bathroom?
|
| CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
|
Runny... it was all
runny.
It was all runny?
What about your stomach?
It was just hurting real bad.
Did you throw up any?
Uh.. don't remember if I
did or not.
What happened to your hair?
Just a little... little bitty
place started coming out.
Did you lose all of your hair or
just part of it?
Part of it.
Ok...
(continuing) ... not even part of
it really, just that spot right
there.
Right... The top of
your head? .. right here, the
crown?
Uh huh...
(continuing) ... on the very
tip-top part of your head? What
about your eyes?
They... every time I get in the
pool, they start... getting real
red.
The swimming pool? What happens
to your skin when you get in the
sunlight?
Sunburned.
Does it burn real fast after
you've been out there?, or do you
have to be out for awhile?
Have to be out there for about a
hour or 30 minutes.
|
| CJC: |
OK... what happened to
your face whenever you... later on
after you saw this thing in the
sky... what happened to you?
|
| CL: |
I don't remember,,. it's
been so long ago.
|
| CJC: |
It's been what?, six
months ago?... Did you have any
problem with a blister on your side
of your face?
|
| CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
|
CL:
(pause)... yes... a little bit.
CJC: OK, what happened?
CL: They started
popping ... uh... every time I got
in the sun they'd pop.
CJC: OK. Are you sick
anymore?
|
| CL: |
Sometimes... this
morning... my stomach was starting
to hurt this morning... when I was
eating... went to Dairy Queen to
eat.
|
| CJC: |
What about whenever you
go to the bathroom? Do you still
have problems with it being real
soft?
|
| CL: |
Mmmmmmmm.
|
| CJC: |
OK, alright. Thank you
Colby... Um... regarding relative to
Colby, have you had any expenses
regarding his treatment?
|
| VL: |
Nothing but his eyes,
I've been doctoring him at home for
the simple reason that um... see I
always worked, and uh... when I got
so I couldn't work anymore... on
what my husband makes... he has a
good job, compared to what, you
know... not compared to what some
people have, but his take home pay
is $243.00 a week, by the time we
pay rent, bills and our car note and
gas for him to go back and to work,
there's very little left for
groceries much less for medical
bills... so I doctor him at home, or
I don't doctor him, unless... if he
was to get real real sick because
they couldn't find out what was
wrong with Betty, and I'm not going
to put him through all this... all
of that unless they come up with
something that they can that they
can doctor him with, without
doctoring him for everything under
the book.
|
| CJC:
|
Let me ask you, your
relationship again... was just one
of friends? or are y'all related by
blood?
|
| BC&VL: |
Friends...
|
| VL: |
I was working after
work, at a little place she had out
on the... and we were moving, in the
process of moving to a bigger place,
and we were just out riding around,
you know like friends do, and we run
into this thing, and just like I
wrote the uh... congress, and uh...
way I feel, that if our government
don't know what that was that hurt
us... we're in a bad shape...
because it had to be manmade.
|
| CJC: |
Uh huh... why do you say
it had to be manmade?
|
| VL: |
Well, I don't think
nobody... don't think there are any
little green men out there to make
one.
|
| CJC:
VL:
CJC:
BC:
|
So you don't believe in
life on other planets.
I sure didn't.
OK... how about you Ms. Cash?
I never have believed in it
either.
|
| CJC: |
OK. So its fair to say
then, let me see if you agree with
this, that you ah... saw this object
in the sky and it was being
accompanied by some helicopters
which you believe to be from the
United States Air Force....
and...
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) I don't
say it's from the Air Force... I
didn't see no sign... no name on
them or nothing, I was too busy,
like said wish the baby, and when we
stopped looking at them and
everything, he was showing me, you
know, the kind, and, but they had
the twin rotaries on them, and when
we had our um... aircraft day rodeo,
there was one just like the one we
saw that lit in Dayton with a load
of uh... National Guard that was
going to march in the parade that
evening, and I went up there and
talked to the helicopter... I mean I
didn't say a word, we was just
talking about uh... the shape of a
helicopter and everything, it was
just astonishing. And I said, do
these things ever fly anymore?
And he said we were called out the
night of the 29th by the Harris
county
Sheriff's Department...
|
| BC: |
Montgomery County...
Montgomery County.
|
| VL: |
Montgomery County
Sheriff's Department, and when a
certain person ah...
confronted him with it, he told him
that he had heard about the incident
but they wasn't called out. But that
exactly what he told me, and I've
got his autograph because of, you
know, a little boy back up there, I
got his autograph, and it's right
there.
|
| CJC:
BC:
VL:
|
OK, Do you have that
with you?
Did I bring that with me?
Yeah, I hope you did.
|
| CJC: |
Why don't you give us
everything that you brought with you
that's related to this, ah... to
what you saw, and if there's any way
we can make copies of it then we'll
give it a try to.
|
| BC: |
(rummaging through
things) I'm not sure that Don gave
me that...
|
| VL: |
Its in a red envelope...
shoot... I didn't ask him for that,
he told me that and then I guess he
figured he'd said the wrong thing...
but uh... that's not
it... nope...
|
| CTD:
VL:
CTD:
VL&BC:
VL:
BC:
VL:
BC:
CL:
VL:
BC:
VL:
CJC:
PW:
CJC:
VL:
BC:
CJC:
PW:
CJC:
PW:
CJC:
BC:
VL:
CJC:
BC:
VL:
CTD:
|
Is that a picture of the
type of helicopter?
What?
... of the type of
helicopter you saw?
No, this is one that
they're gonna be bringing out in
1981.
Have you got it?
Huh?
In your purse... it was in there,
with those pictures.
Somebody... I hope we didn't go
off and leave it...
Stay right here.
We didn't bring yours?
... yeah, I got mine, in the car.
Can I go outside and come back
in?
Sure...
Do you know your way out?
Ms. Landrum, come... OK...
(leaving) ... I got my, uh...
Wait, wait, wait, wait, here it
is, here it is- (laughs)
(loudly calling out) She found...
Ms. Landrum!
I should be able to read the
(unintelligible) on the
machine.
OK, Miss Wolf, would you take the
photographs that ah... she showed
to us.
(to BC and VL) May I take those
that you brought here today?
**** (All talking at once)
... and ah... the
documents.... I
understand...
... (unintelligible) at home, I'm
sorry... I'm not real proud of
that one there...
This is like...
I understand...
I just got to pull my wig off
about a month ago...
This is like the helicopter that
looked... and this is uh.. see
this here? ...
Now you see that says Army
National Guard....
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) Well, I
mean this... I've taken these
pictures here by myself, 'cause I
was wanting to satisfy, cause when
this one started over... you know,
Dayton, I was living right there the
edge of Dayton, he like to had a fit
because he thought that the thing
was coming back to yet him.
|
| CTD:
VL:
CTD:
VL:
CTD:
BC:
VL:
CTD:
|
Now you see, that says
Army National Guard, and a big...
Yeah but...
... insignia of Texas....
I know...
... did you see that at all, was
that on the...?
(emphatic) No I did not!, because
I was not in the city of Dayton at
the time.
**** (All talking at once)
She didn't, She didn't see this
one...
No, no, no, no....
|
| CJC: |
Hold on a second... We
were talking on about the night in
question, the night you supposedly
saw the object in the sky, the
UFO.
|
| BC: |
No, no.
|
| VL: |
The only thing... I...
the only thing I can tell you is
that, to me they, they looked just
like this, and I couldn't see
nothing on them.
|
| CJC: |
How were you able to
count them at night?... did
they...
|
| VL: |
Well, like I say, I
might have counted more or less, but
I was saying: one, two, three,
because they were coming, I mean,
even when we got down there uh to
the um, bank we could look back and
there were some that were, were
going like... they were going toward
it. I mean some of them wasn't
the double rotary type, some of them
was the other type, I mean just a...
like, you know they weren't quite as
big, but what caught our eyes was
the ones that had the double
rotaries up there.
|
| BC:
CTD:
VL:
CTD:
BC:
|
They're weird
looking.
OK...
Well they really were!
The double rotary one was the one
you saw "U.S. Air Force" on...
?
Right.
|
| CTD: |
... and it... you
did not remember seeing anything
like... that looked like a
silhouette of the State of
Texas?
|
| BC:
CJC:
VL:
BC:
VL:
BC:
CJC:
|
No.
OK... Pat, see if we can make
ah... copies of...
(breaking in) Well, I mean, I
don't care if you have those
because the pilot told me
that...
(breaking in) Well I do... 'cause
that one's mine.
(to BC) No... what I'm talking
about is I don't care if he has a
copy.
BC: Oh.... no I don't
mind him having a copy.
CJC: OK... no, I'm
going to give it back.
|
| VL: |
But... ah... ah... he
told me that and when I called this
certain person... and uh... he said,
try to get his autograph... and
uh... when I said... look... the way
I done it, I said well Lord be
Hallelujah, somebody has
really... up and... really somebody
that, that really knew something was
up there, you know, and he says:
"what you mean?". And I
said because we were the ones that
were hurt that night. And then
when this guy called, well he had
just heard about it, he
didn't...
|
|
CTD:
VL:
CTD:
|
(break in recording)
What does your husband do?
He works at Richmond Tank Company
at Shelby.
What's his job, what... ?
|
| VL: |
He's a... um... he runs
a... uh, uh, uh, now wait now, let
me... um... (nervous
laugh)... anyway...
|
| CL: |
Brake.
|
| VL: |
He did do brake work,
and now they got him where ah, he's
old enough where he just walks
around a running the tests's on all
the cars, they call it some kind of
tests, you know, where they test the
brakes, and if they any leaks, well
then he tells somebody where its
happening.
|
| CTD:
VL:
CTD:
VL:
CTD:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
VL:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
CJC:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
CL:
|
Does he have some type
of medical insurance at all?
Yes sir, but you can't get no
doctor to help you get into the
hospital or nothing.
But you did have some type of
medical insurance.
Oh, yes sir.
What about you? Did you work
anyplace?
I have Medicare.
OK. Did you work at that time
anyplace?
No, no I wasn't... the reason we
was just out tooling around.
Are you retired, or ... ?
No, I'm not retired, I'm just not
able to go back to work.
Well, she did have her own
business.
I had, well James did, I didn't,
and I got a divorce.
OK, have you just gotten a
divorce when this happened?
Right.
'Bout how long ago?
Well, I had filed for it in
January, or February, and I had
gotten it in, what, July or
August.
CJC: 1980?
BC: Yes... it was
about six - seven months, when I
got it.
CTD: And you got the
business that you... you and your
husband had?
BC: Closed it up.
CTD: You closed it up...
what kind of business was it?
BC: It was a
restaurant and a grocery store...
couldn't make no money
(nervous laugh).
CL: Can we go for ice
cream?
|
| CJC: |
OK, now I asked you
earlier, uh... you came here because
Senator Benson had recommended that
you come here.
|
| BC: |
Yes.
|
| CJC: |
Is there anything in
particular you hope to gain by
coming and talking with um... us in
the Air Force, to people in the Air
Force?
|
| BC: |
(emphatically) Sure!
That's the main purpose we're here.
|
| CJC: |
Alright, would you...
this is again for you to tell me...
why don't you tell me what you hope
to gain, Ms. Cash.
|
| BC: |
Well, I hope to find out
what the object was, and what the
purpose of it was, being there on
the road at the time, and God forbid
I don't ever want anything to happen
to any of my family or my friends,
even to you or your family, even to
an animal to what I've had to go
through. It would satisfy my
mind to find out what it was and
what it was doing there. I
believe that our federal
government... we've GOT to have
secrets, let's face it, in a very
severe time like we are going
through right now...
|
| CL:
BC:
|
Who's supposed to
protect us?
...but things that hurt the
American people, then I think it's
time they should be stopped.
|
| CJC: |
OK, Ms. Landrum, what is
your hopes or aspirations with
coming and talking with us
today?
|
| BC:
CL:
|
Well, that's what I'm
hoping for, there has to be an
answer somewhere, you know?...
Right.
|
| VL: |
... And what better
place is it than a part of the
government, because they're supposed
to protect us anyway, right?
Because my husband went over there
and fought for two and a half
years... he got two purple hearts
out of the deal, and if you're not
protected, what did he go over there
for?
|
| CJC: |
OK. Alright, now I'll
have to confirm what, ah... I think
it's... Representative
Williamson said: that since 1969 the
Air Force no longer has been made...
has been the responsible agency to
investigate UFO sightings... some of
the history that the Congressman
told you is correct... ah... before
1969 there was a Project Bluebook...
which Project Bluebook basically was
just to keep up with all the
sightings... all incidents
where individuals had seen UFOs and
what had happened. In 1969,
that was one of the things that
Congress said that the Air Force
will not do anymore. Then in 1974 -
1975, the President of the United
States at that time recommended that
NASA, The National Aeronautics and
Space Administration see if it would
serve any national interest to
reopen Project Bluebook with the
idea of researching UFOs and
occurrences as they happen in the
United States. It was the
response back of the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration
that they not reopen Project
Bluebook. Now the reason I'm telling
you this is that once you tell you
me your story today, I am without
any power at all to do anything here
a this level...
|
| BC: |
(agitated) Well now,
what can we do?
|
| CJC: |
OK... Alright... just
let me say I'm not, can I get in the
position of advising you to do one
(chuckle) thing or another, but let
me just tell you that, other than
hearing your story, I have nobody to
refer it to higher than this base
here, with the exception of the
agency of the Air Force that used to
investigate UFO sightings and keep
up with it. Now that office
I'll be more than happy to forward a
brief report of what happened today
and what you told us and it will be
up to them to determine whether or
not they will take any action with
respect to it. Ms. Cash, Ms.
Landrum, I do not know...
|
| VL:
CJC:
VL:
|
(very agitated) Where...
but where do we go?...
Well...
(very agitated) What do we do?
|
| CTD: |
Did you get a letter
that mentions the National Archives,
and the organizations that
investigate UFOs?... that you said
you got from Charles Wilson, I
believe?... do you have that?
|
| VL:
CTD:
VL:
CTD:
VL:
|
No, I, I turned it over
and wrote him a letter back.
But do you have the letter he
sent to you?
Huh?... No, I turned it over and
wrote him a letter on the back
side of it...
OK...
... and sent it back to
him.
|
| CJC: |
Ms. Landrum, the
situation is this, at one time, the
federal government investigated
these claims, complaints of what
happened, but there are such...
there's such a large number of
private organizations like you've
already been in contact with that
also have started investigating,
that Congress has essentially said
that it serves no useful purpose to
have all these private organizations
investigating it and have the United
States Government investigate it as
well. Now, in other words there'd be
no value in doing two reports and if
these separate companies or groups
that investigate UFO sightings can
do a good job investigating it then
there's really no need for the Air
Force or for the Army or anybody
else to investigate it as well. Now
it sounds that you have generated
quite a bit of interest from these
other groups, I know that this
gentleman that called and talked
with you, also you're going to meet
with some other people, and there
was a scientist that said that he
wanted to keep your fingernail
clippings to subject them to some
tests... Ah... I can give you an
address of the agency in Washington
that used to investigate these
complaints and they will send you
back a package of private
organization such as those you've
been in contact with
already...(unintelligible, covered
by:)
|
| VL:
CJC:
VL:
|
(breaking in) Well,
we've only been in contact with one.
OK, I cannot sit here and say how
many there are or where they're
located...
(breaking in, agitated) Look!...
I mean... AH...
|
| CJC: |
... (continuing)
and they will send you an effective
package of people to contact and,
you know, maybe even want to yet in
contact with you regarding what
happened to you, and see what's to
be done...
|
| VL: |
To put it point blank,
what we thought maybe you could give
us an answer of where to go from
here, or what to do, because I'm
gonna find the answer...
|
| CJC;
VL:
|
CJC: Well as I
said...
VL: (continuing) ...
it might take me a lifetime but I
intend to find it.
|
| CJC: |
Well, my intentions are
in no way to frustrate you if I can
help you... (unintelligible, covered
by:)
|
| VL:
CJC:
|
(breaking in) You
know what I mean though...
Yes, I understand...
|
| VL: |
... because I'm gonna
find the answer, and it had to be
something the government had up
there, you know, and I intend to
find it.
|
| CJC: |
Well, what I'm going
suggest is this... we will prepare a
report, and again, it'll be nothing
more than just a letter saying that
we met with you today, and that we
have copies of the tape recordings
of our conversation as well as Xerox
copies of, you know, what we were
able to copy at the time, and we'll
forward this to this agency in
Washington that formerly
investigated it, it will have to be
up to them whether to contact you to
further to... to open up a special
investigation into it, or to
correspond with you directly, but
that is the only thing I can do for
you at this time.
|
| BC: |
Well, who is responsible
for us being injured?
|
| CJC: |
(pause)... I'm afraid I
can't answer that, again, I, you
know... based upon the story that
you said, you know, maybe you would
like to consult a civilian attorney
and see what action he'd like to
take to with respect to that,
relative to whether or not I can
confirm or deny that I do not have
that ability, nor do I have that
knowledge, as to whether or not it
in fact occurred.
|
| VL; |
We just thought we might
be get some answers if we came up
here, and I guess we drove (chuckle)
all that far for nothing.
|
| CJC:
BC:
|
Well, I can assure
you...
BC: Well, it was a
clear try, I mean they've been
nice, and I appreciate it.
|
| VL: |
I know, I really
appreciate it, but I don't want no
more uh, uh... investigators
having me go over the deal, because
uh... the thing about is I was
hypnotized, I have the tape if they
want to hear the tape, that's
fine, but I don't intend to go
through it anymore.
|
| CJC: |
I understand. Well I can
assure you that a bunch of
lawyers...
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) I don't, I
don't, and there's a lot of quacks,
there really is, that's uh...
supposed to be big UFO dealers and
wheelers, and they're not after
hunting the truth, they after
something... proving something
that's unreal, and it's... what was
up there was real, it hurt us, it
wasn't outer space either.
|
| BC: |
And they're out for a
story. And once they make their few
dollars off their stories, which is
not true nine times out of ten,
parts of it, I can say may be, if
you're fortunate, but uh... they
misconstrue it quite often
too.
|
| CJC: |
Well, sometimes they're
out to make a sensational story,
they'll get people to buy their
publication, to read it, but my
interest in this is, you know, I
have no intentions of making any
type of report to the newspaper or
anything, I will do exactly
as...
|
| BC:
VL:
|
(at same time as CJC
above:) Right... right, right.
Don't put that on his arm, it
would hurt him probably.
|
| CJC: |
That's OK, I got a
little boy just about your age
myself... Ah... my intentions are to
hear what you had to say this
morning and to try to yet it into an
agency of the Air Force or portion
of the Air Force that could help
you. I must be frank with you and
tell you that I know of no such part
of the Air Force that today
investigates these complaints but,
on your behalf, I will forward it on
to that agency and say, look this is
what these people reported to me. I
give it to you to decide if you want
to do something with it or not, if
you want to do something with it
then fine, but, you know,
unfortunately Senator Benson in
referring you here... we're an
agency that has not investigated UFO
sightings in almost eleven years.
And then we were, in effect, told by
the Congress and the President that
we would not be doing that anymore.
|
| BC:
|
Well, he didn't tell me
to come here for you to investigate
UFO, he said to come here to file a
claim.
|
| CJC:
VL:
|
OK, now if you wish to
file a claim, we can help you in
that respect.
That's why (unintelligible)...
that's what we want to do.
|
| CJC: |
OK, if you wish to do
that... Miss Wolf... we have the
documents and the paperwork to
assist you in getting started along
those lines, but I must tell you at
the beginning, OK, in as much that I
am a government attorney as is
Captain Davis... we cannot provide
you with legal advice...
|
| VL:
CJC:
VL:
|
... Well, we don't need
any legal advice.
... the claims forms are the
forms which, and they're self
explanatory...
'Cause, we have the proof, and
when you have the proof, you don't
need legal advice.
|
| CJC: |
Well... that's... that's
true, I'm sure... but anyhow, the
ah... the forms are self
explanatory, Miss Wolf will give
them to you and if you wish to go
ahead and file a claim, then, you
know we'll process it in that
respect, OK? Now let me ask
you, do you wish that I go forward
with this information to
Washington?
|
| BC:
CJC:
BC:
|
(emphatically) Sure!
... or that I hold it back and
attach it to your claim?
Well, send it on in.
|
| VL: |
Either way, either way,
(unintelligible)... the better I'd
like it. It doesn't make any
difference to me.
|
| CJC: |
OK. Again, my
intentions in talking with you today
was to find out as much as possible
about what happened...
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) And we
appreciate it, because ah... ah,
we've been trying for seven, almost
eight months now... ah to get
answers which we get pieces, a
little here, a little there till,
um... its pretty well... like
a puzzle you're putting together..
and... we gonna get it together...
it's gonna be fit together.
|
| CTD: |
We suggest that ah...
you get advice from a civilian
attorney about filling out your
claim forms and filing a
claim.
|
| BC: |
OK.
|
| CJC: |
Primarily so that
whenever you go to process it, or
once it's submitted that everything
you need to have is there, and all
the things you may be claiming
against are attached to the claims
document, and we have everything,
you know, to go by... now I'm sure
they'll require some written
statement as to what happened to
you, and if you'd like, you can
reference the conversation that we
had today... ah... but I'll assure
you that it'll be given the same
consideration as any other claim
that is made against the government,
as far as to determining whether or
not it's a claim that the United
States Government should pay, and,
you know, it'll be treated with, you
know, the same type of consideration
that we give the others... Captain
Davis, would you like to explain to
them the claims procedure?
|
| CTD:
PW:
|
Ok, we got enough for
both of 'em?
Um hum.
|
| CJC: |
... have to be one for
each of you... one for Colby, one
for Eunice Cash, one for Eunice
Landrum.
|
| CTD: |
... And you'll need
two... and you'll need... The forms
are self-explanatory, but you'll
need to sign 'em, all this original
and like I said, you may want to
consult with a civilian attorney to
yet the best advice on what to do
... but uh ... the claim forms are
really self-explanatory.
|
| VL:
CL:
CJC:
VL:
CTD:
VL:
|
OK.
I want to sign.
I think you'll have to wait a few
years before you'll know
how.
If you wouldn't mind,
(unintelligible) here's our
address, you can just mail it to
Dayton.
CTD: ... Dayton is in
our...
VL: (unintelligible)
|
| BC: |
I appreciate you taking
your time to listen, because you
would be surprised that we have...
of the people... the doctors even,
that don't want to treat a person if
they think you've had radiation
burns. You would be surprised, and
if you doubt me, get 'em and try to
get a physician to test you.
|
| CJC:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
CTD:
|
CJC: I'm sure I'll
take your word for it, Ms. Cash.
BC: (laughs)
CTD: Your name begins with
a "C", C-A-S-H?
BC: Right.
CTD: OK.
|
| CJC: |
OK... I'm glad you came
by here today, and again my
intentions are to help you in any
way I can from the standpoint of
getting you channeled into the right
Air Force Agency, I also have the
obligation to tell you that we have
no such agency to investigate or to
find out from it, and I must tell
you that as well, 'cause I don't
have the authority here to create
one...
|
| BC:
VL:
BC:
CJC:
BC:
|
(breaking in) Right...
(breaking in) If you can't find a
good one, just throw it in the
garbage.
(laughs)
We won't do that, we'll keep it
for sure...
...because we've had enough of
these...
|
| PW: |
We will need to have
these forms filled out, in the
original and two carbon copies, but
you'll have to sign all three
copies, Ok?... and as for your son
here, since you're his legal
guardian you will sign...
|
| BC: |
Fill each form with two
carbon copies?
|
| PW: |
Yes ma'am... Un huh...
Put the two carbons in and just fill
out the one form and it'll come
through, but do sign each one.
|
| CJC:
BC:
CJC:
|
OK, thank you very much
for coming by.
Well thank you, I'm sorry that we
took up your time, but we had to
get...
My time is your time.
|
| VL: |
That's the reason I was
hypnotized, because, I mean, I, I, I
knew I wasn't lying, and I did it
because I wanted these other people
to know I wasn't lying, so
ah....
|
| CJC: |
OK, if you would please,
ah... just so that... since we
referenced it in our conversation,
the letter from Senator Benson, if
you would you please let us have
it...
|
| BC:
CJC:
|
Surely.
CJC: ... you know, it would
give us a document...
|
| VL: |
I appreciate him sending
it to me, it's more than we could
get out of anybody else... so I
really appreciated him taking up his
time.
|
| CJC: |
OK, well we certainly
appreciate you coming by... do
you-all need any help in getting off
base, or anything?
|
| VL:
BC:
|
No, I think we can make
it.
BC: We found it.
(laughs)
|
| VL: |
The only thing is
terrible my eyes are bad and I can
hardly see how to drive, and she...
her being in the hospital and
everything, she forgot she had a
birthday, and when she was sick down
here a while ago she got expired
driver's license!
|
| BC:
VL:
VL&BC:
BC:
VL:
|
Oh dear! (laughs)
Well, I guess I'll have to drive
back today...
(Both together laughing and
joking about driving home)
... Unless I go downtown and get
my driver's license...
(breaking in) Reckon she could
yet 'em down here?
|
| CJC: |
Oh, yes, there are
several places here and they'll make
them for you while you wait, there's
one down on, what is that?
(unintelligible), isn't that a big
testing center there?
|
| VL:
BC:
CL:
VL:
CJC:
BC:
|
She really needs to
drive me back.
Yes, because (unintelligible,
laughing)
(talking about driving)
You don't want Betty a driving
with an expired driver's
license.
Well, thank you...
(laughing)
|
| VL: |
... Betty, got her
shook up, she give up... turned left
on right hand signal right down
there, (laughs).
|
| BC:
CJC:
|
Thank you ma'am, y'all
have a good day.
Thank you ma'am.
(Casette end)
|
|
|
