entry for June 28, 2006:
I would like to verify Mantell's WWII service. Doesn't seem likely that a mere troop transport pilot would come to the attention of brass like Gen Garland. Capt Tyler's statement says that Mantell flew "transition in B-24's" in WWII (not sure what "transition" means unless he was training for B-24 flight duty). B-24's were bombers not troop transports, and flew much higher (to 32,000 ft), where oxygen was necessary and thus Mantell had to be familiar with oxygen requirements from personal experience. The excuse that he only flew low-altitude transports doesn't cut it.
June 29, 2006
During January 1948, Police Officer Joe Walker conducted an investigation of an aircraft accident which crashed into the yard of Mrs. Carrie Phillips, Route 3, Lake Spring Road, 5 miles southwest of Franklin, Kentucky. (W J Phillips farm)
Then later Godman Field denied there was a recording ever made. It took months, Major Duesler who was supposed to have gotten the tape transcribed was himself transferred out. But there is another "trick" possibly involved here. There was something called a Plan 62 Interphone System linking several CAA (and presumably AACS) control towers in the region. One guy at Lockbourne (if I recall which base correctly) actually listened in on Godman's Tower conversation and wrote down the Godman base theodolite trackings of azimuth and elevation for an unidentified object later that evening, which he heard over this interphone system hundreds of miles away from Godman. Without his record we wouldn't have most of those readings from Godman itself. Thus it is possible ANOTHER BASE recorded the Godman Tower communications rather than Godman itself. Later Godman could weasel-wordedly say that they at Godman didn't record anything.
The base was Lockbourne and the person was Pickering, also from Kevin Randle's analysis of the case:
"Richard Miller, (1953) in a privately circulated "Prologue," reported that he had been in the Air Force in January 1948 and that he had been stationed at Scott Air Force Base near Belleville, Illinois. Like Albert Pickering, he had been listening to the intercept over the closed communications link. Miller reproduced the inter-plane and the communications with the tower accurately, suggesting, "At 3:15 P.M., ... Mantell called in again and said, 'It's still above me making my speed or better. I am going to 20,000 feet. If I'm no closer then, I'll abandon the chase.'" Miller than added, "This is where the official Air Force account ends. However, there was on further radio transmission from Mantell at 3:18 that afternoon. His last statement has been stricken from all of the official records. He said, 'My god (sic). I see people in this thing.'" There is, of course, no corroborated record of Mantell ever having said anything like either of these two statements. The official record, now available to UFO researchers, was originally classified, and had Mantell uttered anything like that, it would have been included in that file. Air Force investigators would have expected the file to remain classified and would have had no reason to censor themselves. These sorts of quotes, and stories, created without proper foundation, while interesting, add nothing to the understanding of the case. They should now be expunged from the record." Whether this is true or not, could someone at Scott AFB have recorded the transmissions?
Thanks Jean. Yes you've refreshed my memory. That's exactly what I mean, some other base such as Scott AFB or Lockbourne or Wright Field, whatever, might have recorded Godman's communications over their interphone system. Maybe Maj Duesler knew which base had the recording but was transferred before he could get it and didn't bother to tell anyone.
This thing about Duesler not being available for Loedding's question about the status of the investigation:
"Capt. James F. Duesler is no longer a member of this Organization, therefore his status of investigation promised Mr. A. C. Loedding by subject officer cannot be determined." Didn't Duesler make out a report? Anyway, why couldn't he be summoned or written to?
I am in the process of exposing a coverup of the complicity of Mantell's wingmen in the crash. More than just a possible UFO coverup is involved here but also ordinary corruption and deceit. Lt Clements' statement is riddled with falsehoods from start to finish evidently designed to minimize or omit his role in supporting Mantell's chase without oxygen (he Clements was the only one with oxygen and he used it) in violation of AF Regs, above 14,000 ft. Apparently, as I infer, Clements saw the object for a substantial portion of the approximately 15-minute chase contrary to his statements that he only saw something at the very end. Thus he was puzzled or entranced with the object and went along with Mantell's ill-advised pursuit for a very long time without warning him not to. Clements has falsely compressed all this into a "few minutes" drama. If in fact they flew for roughly 15 minutes above 14,000 ft without Mantell having oxygen (or Hammond either) then why didn't Clements warn him again and again and again? It cries out for explanation. The Accident Investigating Board was also complicit in this coverup, which pinned the entire blame on Mantell -- who was conveniently dead and unable to respond to charges and unable to be punished -- and thus absolved Clements and Hammond of any responsibility whatsoever. They saw "something" too and that's why they, like Mantell, went on for so long at too high an altitude.
I spent too many hours yesterday working out the Mantell timeline but drafted up most of it. I just need to finish it. It's the timeline that sinks Clements. He and the Board claimed that Mantell was gunning it into a maximum climb at full power right from the start just above Godman Field. I found out that's an absolute impossibility, they made it up to make Mantell look bad. It turns out that at max climb rate of about 2,000 ft/min at 15,000-20,000 ft it would have taken only 4 MINUTES to have gotten from 14,000 to 22,500 ft where the last contact with Mantell was made -- if that was true they would have barely gotten out of the vicinity of Godman!!!! At max climb the P-51's speed drops to only 180 mph and in 4 minutes they would only have gotten about 12 miles away from Godman Field! Mantell's crash site was 92 miles away and the Bowling Green area the Mantell flight flew over was 67 miles
Check this out:
http://arnold-air.org/roster/06/ (now archived at: http://web.archive.org/web/20080407180313/http://arnold-air.org/roster/06/ )
Tommy Mantell Squadron, AFROTC Det. 295, University of Louisville, Louisville, KY
http://www.afa.org/contact_links.asp?searchby=state&stabbr=KY&ent=chapter Local AFA Chapters
Still hoping to find his service record. He wasn't an "ace". We knew that, but WFIE thought he was. They got an email that corrected that. But he was highly regarded and I would like to know what they say about him.
This is unverified information, 1996, with no supporting evidence for the unusual claims.
...... "Sightings" had an interview with former Army sergeant Quinton A. Blackwell, who was in the tower at Godman Field, Fort Knox, Kentucky the afternoon of January 7, 1948, when Captain Thomas F. Mantell had his fatal encounter with a UFO. During his meeting with Capt. Mantell's two sons and sister, Blackwell made a startling statement. He said that once Capt. Mantell had the large metallic saucer in sight, the pilot remarked, "We're going to need hot guns."
Capt Richard Tyler's statement says Mantell flew in B-24 bombers during WWII not just troop transports. B-24's flew as high as 32,000 feet. Thus Mantell did have personal experience with high-altitude oxygen requirements. The troop-carrier story doesn't wash (they said he didn't know about oxygen requirements because he had only flown low-altitude troop transports). Also, Mantell had 67 hours of flight time in the P-51D, which had a service ceiling of 41,000 feet or so. Did he not fly it with oxygen sometime during those 67 hours?
June 30, 2006
Apparently Mantell was pretty sharp. Jean read somewhere where it describes his service activity pretty well with some hair-raising hollywood type incidents. But Wendy's account says Mantell told the tower they were not the planes from Standiford but were returning from a ferry flight from Atlanta to Standiford. He agreed to seek out and investigate the object but wanted the aircraft from Standiford to be aborted. (Apparently to avoid congestion while they investigated. Found a page in the accident report signed by LEE MERKEL
Yes I noticed that Merkel had signed the accident reports, as KNG Commander. I don't have any reliable report that any general was in the Godman Tower but there were Colonels, Majors, Captains, etc. Godman expected 2 planes from Standiford scrambled but they did not show up. Godman Tower personnel all saw the object apparently. I am unsure if Mantell's other wingman Hammond saw anything -- he was suffering from hypoxia.Fran Ridge:
(Did not show up) That's because Mantell had them abort the flight
Be interesting if we could find a coroner's report that DIDN'T support anoxia for the cause of death. I assume that's how he died, but WHAT IF he didn't die that way? The plane crashed funny, just like you always said. Bet we don't have a coroner's report
Yes we do have a coroner's report (it's in the Accident Report and states the wristwatch stopped at 3:18 PM) but what we don't have is an AUTOPSY exam as it seems it was not done.
The Accident Report is based only on what the reporting station (Standiford) had and does not use any Godman Tower witnesses. I am in the process maybe today of comparing Godman witnesses' accounts of radio transmissions with Clements' false account. I believe he lied about almost everything.